# \[IGN-14657\]: UDT deletes standard tags after Gateway Restart **URL:** \ **Category:** Ignition\ **Created:** [May 15, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723 "2023-05-15T13:11:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![darren.sisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@darren.sisco](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/darren.sisco)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/1 "2023-05-15T13:11:04Z")
Hello, We have v8.1.17, I've been programming since v7.8 on the same server in 2018. Two weeks ago I made some UDTs for a new process I'm running. The UDT was working fine on several machines. Last Monday, I found that a few tags were missing from the UDT which broke the logic. It wasn't a problem, I added them back. Today when I came in, those same three tags were missing after the restart. Its the strangest thing, I've never had a UDT change itself before on this system. These tags are very basic. Any idea why they keep dropping? I'm losing currentTime, cycleLast and cycleSecondsCurrent. Nothing else goes missing but these three. ![Capture](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/original/3X/b/6/b61f39a98298cf8075d2701f764f2491c46ea5bf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/2 "2023-05-15T13:36:49Z")
Have you looked through your wrapper log yet? I'd check around the time you added them back (to see if that threw errors) and shortly after restart (to see if they saved but didn't restore). ---
**Author:** ![darren.sisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@darren.sisco](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/darren.sisco)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/3 "2023-05-15T14:28:31Z")
It looks like the wrapper had cleared from a couple of dead machines spamming logs. I deleted them out so the log will be cleaner the next round. ---
**Author:** ![darren.sisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@darren.sisco](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/darren.sisco)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/4 "2023-05-30T15:01:16Z")
The three that were disappearing, I ended up naming them '\_old' and writing in new ones with the same coded and name as the original. This morning, after a weekend power cycle, all the '\_old' disappeared but the new ones persisted. Its as if the issue was copy and pasting in the three tags put them in a RAM state and were lost after a power cycle. Got to be some kind of bug in the version I'm running. Its all good now. ---
**Author:** ![Samer\_Samy1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/samer_samy1/32/52910_2.png) [@Samer\_Samy1](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Samer_Samy1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/5 "2025-09-11T15:06:46Z")
Hi ,same accident happened to my machine . Any advice how to retrieve deleted tags in the UDTs ? , what I did is some changes in CSS files then I increased the rams in ignition.conf file then restarted the gateway . ---
**Author:** ![robertm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@robertm](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/robertm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/6 "2025-09-11T15:12:18Z")
Interesting….just had a client call yesterday…two tag members disappeared from a UDT…8.1.38. And these tags were copies of two other tag members that persisted. Original two tag members named open\_pb and close\_pb, copies were open\_pb2 and close\_pb2. The pb2s disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Samer\_Samy1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/samer_samy1/32/52910_2.png) [@Samer\_Samy1](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Samer_Samy1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/7 "2025-09-11T15:13:07Z")
mine is 8.1.144 ---
**Author:** ![robertm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@robertm](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/robertm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/8 "2025-09-11T20:28:48Z")
I confirmed today and was able to repeat the issue. I’ve yet to examine the wrapper logs. For now, we re added the tags again, but not through copies, but new instances. ---
**Author:** ![robertm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@robertm](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/robertm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/9 "2025-09-12T01:27:52Z")
I went to check wrapper logs but unfortunately they were full of database errors…something else they have going on. But I did find in the system logs alot of errors that are associated with the tag provider that lost the UDT member tags. The error is [tag provider-xyz] Will perform full pull. Reason: redundant provider on local side has no data. Then redundancy errors that state “error applying full tag state” Perhaps the tag provider isn’t synced on the redundancy and when the primary gateway is lost, the redundancy is missing UDT tag members? ---
**Author:** ![ggross](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ggross/32/12668_2.png) [@ggross](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/ggross)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:27am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/10 "2025-09-12T04:27:30Z")
This feels like the changes are not getting written to the `config.idb` database. If someone runs into it again, if you can DM me the following, it would help to try and figure out what is going on: 1. Provide the `Tag id` for the member that is disappearing: 1. Right click the UDT Definition Member 2. Select `View Tag Diagnostics` 3. Take a screenshot of the full Tag Id (I can copy the value from that and we haven't fixed this in a way where copy/paste works) 2. Do the same for one of the members that never disappears 3. Provide a zipped copy of the `/data/db/config.idb` file 4. Provide the `wrapper.log` files 5. Provide the approximate timestamp the member tags were added back Garth ---
**Author:** ![carlos.girondasilva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@carlos.girondasilva](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/carlos.girondasilva)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/11 "2025-10-29T00:34:39Z")
I would like to add to this and managed to replicate the issue. I have a UDT Definition created that has a parent UDT defined. If i go and create a copy of a tag that comes from the parent UDT, rename it and reconfigure, when i save the tag, it accepts it without issues and propagates to all my instances. The moment I reboot the tag provider, the changes disappear. I tried checking the logs but they are not showing any errors. If i create a new tag (instead of copying a tag from the parent UDT) and then copy this tag, i don’t have the issue. This is on 8.1.48 ---
**Author:** ![ggross](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ggross/32/12668_2.png) [@ggross](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/ggross)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/12 "2025-10-29T15:26:05Z")
Thank you for providing these steps. I can replicate and have an issue logged. It looks like when the copy is made, it isn't getting the `valueSource` or `tagType` properties set, so the tags are considered invalid even though the definitions exist in the appropriate configuration locations. Garth ---
**Author:** ![robertm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea5d25/32.png) [@robertm](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/robertm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2025, 11:22pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/13 "2025-10-29T23:22:01Z")
This occurred again on an install today after a gateway restart from power outage. What should be the short term remediation steps? Can I export the tags and fix/add something and reimport them? This is causing lost production incidents. If I have to delete all the instances and create them 1 by 1, I can do so, but it’ll be a chore and of course render the app unusable during the process. ---
**Author:** ![ggross](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ggross/32/12668_2.png) [@ggross](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/ggross)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/14 "2025-10-30T16:42:39Z")
I sympathize with the situation you are in. While it could be fixed, being able to do so isn't trivial. I would recommend contacting support to see how we can help resolve the problem. There will not be a one size fits all solution as we have to keep in mind the following: 1. The changes have to be made to JSON that exists in a column in the SQLite DB 2. The `valueSource` property isn't something that we would be able to get right 100% of the time 3. Because of the number of times that this has occurred on your environment, there could be duplicated inactive members or invalid inactive members. 4. The safest way to do this would be to: 1. Make a copy of the config.idb 2. Make the changes via a dedicated SQLite tool by adding the `valueSource` and `tagType` properties, along with a custom property that would allow you to quickly search for the affected tags via the Tag Report Tool 3. Load the backup on a test environment 4. Verify and make changes as needed to the fixed tags 5. Export the tags from the test environment when confirmed they are correct and after any changes are made 6. Import the tags into the production environment Something that might be worth setting up (at least until we get this fixed) is a script that exports your UDT definitions to disk periodically via [system.tag.exportTags](https://www.docs.inductiveautomation.com/docs/8.1/appendix/scripting-functions/system-tag/system-tag-exportTags). Exports are made from what is currently in memory and it would allow you to recover quickly should something like this happen again but it doesn't fix the current problem you are experiencing. Garth ---
**Author:** ![tgarrison](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/tgarrison/32/80965_2.png) [@tgarrison](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/tgarrison)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2025, 5:41pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/ign-14657-udt-deletes-standard-tags-after-gateway-restart/73723/15 "2025-10-30T17:41:07Z")
I just managed to use your method to duplicate. If you have "working' udts, export them, and then import them overwriting the existing. Seemed to test out ok on my system. Fixes whatever the glitch is.