# Tag provider lockig up on UDT instance copy **URL:** \ **Category:** Ignition\ **Tags:** ignition81\ **Created:** [May 8, 2025, 10:20am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032 "2025-05-08T10:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:20am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/1 "2025-05-08T10:20:07Z")
I have a very strange behavior of an instance of a UDT. I used this UDT at around 80 identical instances and had and still have no problem at all copy-ing the already preconfigured instance to create other instances with only a single parameter value difference. Meanwhile I updated the UDT by adding an extra folder and some tags into it, implicitly all disabled for backward compatibility with already existing 78 instances. I built a new instance with the additional tags enabled and OPC item path overrides properly configured.(in UDT I have all OPC item paths emplty) All is working fine, views read values ok, no probmem EXCEPT: When I try to copy this instance to another place (I will have another identical 70+ instances of this same one only with the new OPC item paths and additional tags enabled) My designer lock up for a few minutes, all tags disappear and a mini message popup with title "ExecutingTask" shows "Configuring running tasks" with progress that does not advance. this stays there for a couple of minutes. At first I got scared that I did something wrong and I goofed up that I lost the whole TAG provider since all my tags and provier dissapeard from designer so I quickly grabbed a backup from the redundant just in case(wasnt necessary). Meanwhile Designer shows Connection lost and Connection restored simultaneously. ![2025.05.08 Gateway lock while copy UDT instance Connection lost](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/original/3X/5/6/5654e923c832527a923cbdd7ba6b1c0276cd5c17.jpeg) When this "Configuring running tasks" popupMessage disappears, I still can not do anything in the designer, no response for any clicks and Tag Browser shows completly emplty, without even showing the last tag provider. After another couple of second (up to 20), all appears back and working fine. The copy did it's job and the new instance is created and working fine. Since I can recreate this phenomena with no loss of tags, I began to investigate. -First try: None of the other earlyer version of instances (call them version1) of this same UDT has this behavior. -For this new instance (call it version2), while designer gets locked up when copying the problematic instance, I noticed that the whole tag provider locks up, and my designer sessions are loading, but not seeing anything from that tag provider, not even folders. -Whikle locked up, I don't notice any warning on the status pages of the gateway. -Status\>Systems\>Tags show all RealTime providers Running and HistoricalProviders Good -EXCEPT when I try to click on the Browse button for the TAG provider. where it opens up, but only shows Loading and dotts filling up and cycling. I can still browse the other tag providers fine. ![Loading and loading](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/original/3X/3/6/36890c2268fbee5aa4ef77715e43401af2ce268c.jpeg) -I went to the log to see somenthing, and here I noticed quite a few, but the "reference" "Error initiating setter expression" looks to be related to this: (I also see some "No historical tag information could be found for any of the specified paths" but it's probably nothing to do with my issue but strange as these tags are overwritten to disabled and are from an instance of version1 that can be copyed without issues. and one from this new version2 instance (probably need to investigate separately and they are not related to this topics issue) ) -I set the log level of com.inductiveautomation.ignition.gateway.tags.reference to DEBUG to try to capture more details ![Log try4 with DEBUG](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/original/3X/a/8/a8db121d1f92293756a3f664482889891e9e56f0.jpeg) I'll try to attach screen captures and if needed, I can post the whole text of that log To understand the log screen capture: I tryed to copy UDT instance named "Cheson-1" to test folder "[IOcanal]Exemple/t1/" from [IOcanal]C/SM/SNM/S\_SM\_SNM\_SPAU\_SNM-2/CHESON/cheson-1 -I tryed to revert all changes in this version2 instance to look like version1 but same issue. -I tryed to CopyJSON to a notepad and back from there but same idssue. -I have the same issue no matter if I try to copy only the instance itself or the folder containing it . I narrowed down the problem only to this instance as for this case I usually copy a parent folder that contains more folders with UDT instances but only this, and only for version2 has the issue. (Just to mention: I had in the past issues with folders that showed as an empty line and was unable to delete, and showed up duplicated with content when creating another one with the same name. got rid of it only when cut and paste back it's parent folder. Since than I learned to copy parent folders when possible (prepared and still have the screensoths and text to post a qyestion for that, but never posted as I solved it.)) This issue is locking up the whole tag provider and I will have to do it for at least 80 times in the upcoming weaks. (ofchourse I have a script for doing all these replications together with other folders and instances of other UDTS's and the script served me well for version1, but I do not even tryed it yet for version2 of the same UDT since manual copy has issues. What did I do wrong in this instance so I can be careful in the future? I can post it's JSON if helpful. Version 8.1.45 ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 10:58am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/2 "2025-05-08T10:58:08Z")
> [@Ervin](#): > > What did I do wrong You left expected properties empty. Don't do that. ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:09am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/3 "2025-05-08T11:09:55Z")
you mean for OPC Item Path of the UDT that I override on the instance? On this project I do this way for all UDTs and already have 10k+ tags working fine before this issue, if that's the case, I can not have OPC item paths defined on the UDT because my UDT's are each a template for identical or very similar devices and configured depending of each developers's PLC ore I understud you wrong and there is something else you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/4 "2025-05-08T11:16:17Z")
I'm trying to search for it ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:22am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/5 "2025-05-08T11:22:05Z")
I would look in the JSON for `""` attached to a property as an expression binding. Because the error is trying to parse an expression. ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/6 "2025-05-08T11:35:39Z")
> [@pturmel](#): > > look in the JSON for `""` Hmm I reviewed all my expressions and all are configured and working fine I searched in JSON of both the instance and the UDT and did not find any `""` Here's an example of ![Problematic UDT instance version2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/original/3X/f/1/f14f9ed20dbca7bbd32da9aea25a433c6301ed79.png) and the instance's JSON: [Problematic UDT instance version2 GRD\_2LAC.JSON](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/uploads/short-url/zMRpRAV3QBJ8DfFlJveWAyZdvnL.JSON) (4.6 KB) ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:48am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/7 "2025-05-08T11:48:17Z")
However, what I found instead, is that on one of the tag it shows the Override icon, but when editing, nothing shows up with a green dot as if it was overwritten in some way, and that tag should not be overwritten anyway as it's preconfigured from the UDT for all variants. Cheson-1\>Plutitoare\>Stare\_Plutitoare edit: Well, I was wrong. It looks like it says correct as there is indeed an override but unnoticeable as a green dot, but the override is a custom property that I added here and not at the UDT level. Let me move it over to the UDT as it should be there and come back with updates ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/8 "2025-05-08T12:19:20Z")
It looks like THAT WAS IT. or at least that solved my problem I had a custom string property (no expression) on that tag added by mistake only to the instance of the UDT and not at the UDT itself After adding that property to the UDT the green dot appeared on the instance near that property, I clicked it to revert overrides, and now it works. However, I retested the issue and if I add the property to the UDT and do not click on the green dot, the issue persists. Strange, because I have a lot of scenarios where I do have overrides of properties, but until now I had that property defined at the UDT first. > [@pturmel](#): > > You left expected properties empty. Don't do that. It looks like if a property is added only at the instance level, it is not detecting it as an override and it's trying to grab a value for it from the UDT where it does not exist. And in my case that property is a text, not an expression. You suggested an empty `""` expression, but that expression lokks like it is somewhere deep in the Tag Browser trying to reference the UDT's tag property and fails. ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/9 "2025-05-08T12:27:12Z")
Thank you very much for your help and quick response ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:28pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/10 "2025-05-08T12:28:43Z")
Sounds like a bug worth reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Ervin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/ervin/32/57644_2.png) [@Ervin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Ervin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/11 "2025-05-08T12:29:59Z")
Should I report it? If Yes, what's the procedure? Update: I did had another issue with a discussed here on the forum and also got a reply as suggestion to report it or something. ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/tag-provider-lockig-up-on-udt-instance-copy/106032/12 "2025-05-08T12:43:08Z")
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