# Why do some \`system\` functions take keyword args and some don't? **URL:** \ **Category:** Ignition\ **Created:** [July 24, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764 "2023-07-24T05:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nminchin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/nminchin/32/6911_2.png) [@nminchin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/nminchin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/1 "2023-07-24T05:20:47Z")
Question in the title. E.g. `system.dataset.sort` doesn't take keyword args, but most do. Just wondering the reason most do but some don't? I like providing keyword args since it both: - makes it easier to read later on, especially if you're using a function you don't normally use - increases chances of backwards compatibility in case function arg definitions change (e.g. new args are added into existing arg indices) - this one should probably very rarely happen, but it's a possibility ---
**Author:** ![justinedwards.jle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/justinedwards.jle/32/37854_2.png) [@justinedwards.jle](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/justinedwards.jle)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:35am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/2 "2023-07-24T05:35:24Z")
> [@nminchin](#): > > `system.dataset.sort` doesn't take keyword args You mean : > system.gui.transform( **component=event.source** , [...]) > vs > system.dataset.sort( **event.source.data** , [...]) You're asking why you can't explicitly say: > system.dataset.sort( **dataset=event.source.data** , [...])? ---
**Author:** ![nminchin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/nminchin/32/6911_2.png) [@nminchin](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/nminchin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/3 "2023-07-24T05:36:35Z")
Correct ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 9:22am UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/4 "2023-07-24T09:22:15Z")
Pure chance on whomever originally implemented the function, until IA made it an internal best practice to support them. Most of the newer stuff supports them. ---
**Author:** ![paul-griffith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/paul-griffith/32/37249_2.png) [@paul-griffith](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/paul-griffith)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/5 "2023-07-24T15:48:59Z")
Yeah. On _our_ side, implementing with keyword args takes slightly more effort and means slightly more complicated unit testing. It's definitely my preference for all first party functions, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kevin.Herron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/kevin.herron/32/7259_2.png) [@Kevin.Herron](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/Kevin.Herron)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/6 "2023-07-24T15:53:09Z")
I only use them when there's a mix of required and optional parameters, and even then sparingly. They're a bit of a footgun in some cases, and can lead to mistakes and confusion like [this](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/rest-api-system-net-httpclient-post-errors-415-400/76744/2) if you don't name every parameter in your calls and instead fall back to the implicit ordering. ---
**Author:** ![jacque\_trahan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/jacque_trahan/32/58886_2.png) [@jacque\_trahan](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/jacque_trahan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/7 "2024-02-21T21:20:57Z")
Ah just came across this as well. Will this be a feature or at least removed from the [documentation](https://www.docs.inductiveautomation.com/docs/8.1/appendix/scripting-functions/system-dataset/system-dataset-sort) if we can not use it? Code works if i do not have the key word "naturalOrdering": ```auto sortedDataSet = system.dataset.sort(updatedDataset, 0, naturalOrdering=True) ``` error: ```auto com.inductiveautomation.ignition.common.script.JythonExecException Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 6, in runAction File "", line 1203, in getTagAddDataSetHeadersValuesToTag TypeError: sort(): takes no keyword arguments caused by org.python.core.PyException Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 6, in runAction File "", line 1203, in getTagAddDataSetHeadersValuesToTag TypeError: sort(): takes no keyword arguments Ignition v8.1.36 (b2024010211) Java: Azul Systems, Inc. 17.0.8 ``` ---
**Author:** ![pturmel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/pturmel/32/3295_2.png) [@pturmel](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/pturmel)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/8 "2024-02-21T21:26:05Z")
You **can** use it. You just cannot use a keyword to supply it. If you look carefully at the docs, you will see `ascending` and `naturalOrdering` **together** in a single set of brackets. That tells me they are a pair, supply neither or both, but not just one. When keyword arguments **are** supported, the docs **say so**. ---
**Author:** ![jacque\_trahan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/inductiveautomation/user_avatar/forum.inductiveautomation.com/jacque_trahan/32/58886_2.png) [@jacque\_trahan](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/u/jacque_trahan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://forum.inductiveautomation.com/t/why-do-some-system-functions-take-keyword-args-and-some-dont/76764/9 "2024-02-21T21:38:50Z")
Ohhh ok, I did not realize ignition made us do that. I was looking at it like python functions where we do not have to call them all was my mistake. That makes sense hank you!