Wooow, it seems we missed a lot of discussion here
Agree with you on that Approach.
Now I am working to build templates specific for RO process an unique templates . No client asked me to do it . It’s an idea and I can not protected and can’t sell it till I am be able to concert it to Module .
If I have a way to protect this idea that will be good.
Before this function was available in previous version. And all developer here know that .now it’s Remove and they defense about removing it in new version while in old version no one ask to remove it .
It’s seems we have to learn to able to convert any new idea to.prtotect it.
As I work for a large corporation, all of are contracts state, any deliverable software belongs to us. If the deliverable is a custom complied code which they deemed propitiatory, they must at there own expense put that version of source code into a third party escrow account. Were as if the first party goes out of business, we then gain full rights to the source code, but only if there go out of business.
There are a few exceptions on are contracts.
Other large corporations i.e. Microsoft, Ignition etc. do not have to go though the escrow process. This is at are own discretion.
The other large exception, is if a vender makes there code with a copy right, we will honer it the same way open source is honored. i.e. if marked for no use out side of the corporation, then OK we will keep it on house only, if mark with must give credit we will. But these terms must be spelled out before the PO is cut.
We have quite a few companies using option 1 above, a few elect option 2. Most select the option that says we own the deliverable. Otherwise we will use a different vendor for the code. In forty years with working with my Company there has been only one vendor refusing anything of the above. After several years of purchasing stuff from there direct competition, and loosing a lot of work, they gave into option 1.
There is one other option I forgot about. That is the NDA I have with my company, stating any code I write to be used in are company while working at my company belongs to the company I have no rights to it.
I find IP really stupid. There are so many companies that do the same thing. So many companies that make the same kind of machine. Even though I can’t see exactly what you did , I still know what you are doing. IP on code is like saying I’m gonna trademark tHiS and the combo of caps and lower cases makes it unique to my company.
Wow what a read…
I can see some merit in having some protections over resources.
I have ran into the problem where I had developed a large number of resources for a client that where really nice and more dynamic than just for the specific use case. This client had another integrator install some speciality equipment in the plant and was needed to get access to the system, which obviously was provided.
6 months later I was asked to help another client in a completely seperate industry (On the other side of the country) that had a falling out with said ‘Other integrator’ and low and behold i found my nice resources used throughout the project.
Weirdly enough there was actually a bid for a project won by “Other Integrator” not long after they were given access too. So begs the question, how were they going to develop all of that to the company standard in such little time…
It is a disappointing fact of life and at the end of the day the resources were built for that client and should be open to that client to do as they see fit.
We’re in a similar situation at the moment as well. From a technical perspective, there’s not really much you can do to protect your stuff, bar creating it inside of a module. But that would be prohibitively more expensive and time consuming for its entire lifecycle.
You could always go with the security by obscurity model and just make your stuff so complicated that noone wants to use it
Here a less objective opinion. Nothing is perfect and this is the ‘almost a bad’ thing of Ignition, from the ‘Normal’ Developer point of view.
The priority over final customers and owner of servers and licenses is higher that anything else.
But that, in fact, has sense and there is something we must admit. Locking a resource that might be harmful for Ignition as software, is dangerous. The customers would not have the chance to call @pturmel or @nminchin or @Paullys50 or @andrewbrown or @nader.chinichian or even me or any other to fix the issue, because it will be locked. So customers will get a bad experience with the product, and it turns into a game of reputation.
At some point someone posted that making a good legal contract will the solution. But, outside America bubble (or any 1st world country you live in), that is not practical.
There are thousands of other search algorithm companies. There IP didn’t do anything for them. They are making money off of strong branding more than anything right now.
If you compare Google’s algorithm to Bing’s by comparing search results, you would know that Bing has a long way to go. It’s not just branding, it’s their IP that provides better quality results. If Google just gave that away as you’re saying to do, they would lose their competetive advantage. If Google’s algorithm was open source, Microsoft might also finally fix their Windows search, although I doubt it😒
Well ouch, lol. I definitely thought there would be more open source advocates on here.
Pretty sure people like Linus Torvalds (Linux Kernel) and Brian Behlendorf (Apache Web Server) didn’t have the same mentality and others like them. Those are just the two most notable I could think of off the top of my head. There technology is great, predominantly used and open source. Both have more branch offs than i could count. And because of that they tend to be more secure.
Security by community is real thing and its growing.
And I can not begin to say how many people profited off of open source software, myself included. Just look at the web space. open source software doesn’t stop people from selling million dollar solutions with them such as websites and SAAS. Most driven from free open source technology and billed not on labor but value.
because at the end of the day, not everyone has the mindset to do what we do. and customers do not want to do what we do. This is why we can charge a premium and why customers pay it.
The main thing we sell is our selfs, if you can sell you self, provide what you sell, connect with the customer and make them laugh with a few jokes, you will land jobs.
Some of us are open source advocates. Google “linux-raid philip@turmel.org” to see some of my open-source activity and contributions.
But it doesn’t pay the bills in niche environments–there’s just not enough altruism out there for open-source to be self-sustaining everywhere. It works in large systems like what Red Hat pursues.
I am definitely an open source advocate, In the past we worked with other integrators to tackle national roll outs. Sharing screens, sharing templates etc. (At our own cost) for the good of the client.... but it isn't very fun when people directly take "IP" or "Developed resources" from your system without asking or you offering and then using them in either other projects, or projects you had bid for and the only way to be cheaper is to not need to re-coup some of the development time.
Overall I dont see this being the norm, 99.99% of the community is helpful, trusting and really great. And We never shy away from giving answers to problems that aren't our own.
In my experience. Locked/obscured code is often used to hide bad coding that someone actually mistakenly made to work, now locked away so nobody can complain. But with siemens, its easy to pry open the password locked blocks and peek into them to see the code, probably as easy in other brands too.
That said, if you develope a complete product/machine with some IP, then one probably would want to lock away “quick finger McGeee” to edit change the code from a verified state to something that seems to work, that i get. But other than that, everything i develope for a client, under their roof, in my mind is their code 100%. No matther if i use TIA-Portal, pything, C# coded plc interfacing HMI, they paid for the time and knowledge to bring forward a solution they wanted that probably “did not exist yet”.
