Better than Ignition. Any SCADA?

Don’t be ashamed. Be happy that you have more options.

Everyone misses stuff now and then.

I just did some rough costing and with the Limited Vision module plus SQL bridge I can get per unit HMI costs down to $3.5k vs about $5k for the current situation. Now I just need to justify the retooling, support and training costs for a completely new solution :wink:

You can go for edge Panel with cost you even less. only one week historian which is I think is good for your application. For SQL bridge you can use system.db function instead in a timer

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You can talk to your account exec and get even more custom.

If Edge has limitations that would prohibit that option, you can buy just 1 vision client even for the full version. Also modules like reporting, you can buy one report. You can bolt on more when you need them. When you reach the point of paying what the full module cost, it then goes unlimited. For reports this is 5 reports, for vision it is 10 clients.

Going to Edge might be an option, but at some point you’re trading off time and effort in coding for the convenience of point and click. And in my case $1K or $2k savings difference is still going to be outweighed by other costs.

Not sure what you mean by that? The Edge designer is the same as the standard Designer, it just imposes limitations on certain parts of the product. If you wanted to upgrade to standard, you can relatively easily do that by exporting the project and tags, and restoring to a standard gateway. The gateway config though might still need to be replicated manually, but I haven't tried this in a couple of years, so maybe it's different in 8?

I think I am conflating Edge with not having SQL Bridge as per what was up a couple of comments

For SQL bridge you can use system.db function instead in a timer

However I don't know if this is a valid conflation or not.

Re sql Bridge, personally I’ve never used this and do as Nader suggested by calling system.db functions to insert rows into custom tables. Whether that’s because I haven’t spent the time to learn how to use the sql Bridge module, I’m not sure, but I also feel that my logging criteria will be too complex for this module to handle. These usually happen on tag change triggers for me though to log say sequence runs. Ignition Edge doesn’t come with support for connecting to a sql database, so neither of these options are valid

I have no problem writing scripts that would do anything directly on an SQL Db, but I have to consider people like the field engineers who would have to support such a system long term. For them, having a point and click interface is going to decrease the chances that they will hate me :laughing:

The actual logging that I will be doing is pretty simple, but definitely does need SQL DB connectivity.

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battlecard short Ignition vs Aveva.pdf

Working as an independent system integrator, I have found the following propaganda sheet prepared by the Aveva group.

Personally, I think that some of these points are correct, while some of them are plain false, some wildly out of context, and it looks like the document is written by someone which is unexperienced with Ignition 8.

This looks to me like Aveva is scared of Ignition as a competitor and has to use this kind of misinformation tactic to keep on going.

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I think that there is no better SCADA than Ignition, but there is cheaper and easier (I am talking about less possibilities of presenting data)
BUT! I also have had a lot of experiences with other SCADA systems... so my opinion that Ignition is the BEST solution for implementing data and its programming!
It's flexible, but how it was said here before it's in some things hard even for professionals))
:balloon:

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The fact they brother to make this document show they fear of Ignition. As I remember GE did the same nonsense document before.

The only valid concerns are:
1 - ignition solution for a small project is too costly compared to other solutions like WebIQ, Webfactory, mySCADA, TATSOFT,… (of course AVEVA is not the case here)

2 - The historian of ignition doesn’t use any sort of encryption. There are so many applications that want even the data in SQL has used blockchain technology, so it is impossible to manipulate data even by ignition itself.

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For a python programmer ,wincc is too heavy.ignition is much better,it’s a modern SCADA,right?
But ignition has its own problems,The designer is performing poorly and needs tuning.Some basic features are missing, or with bugs.

If you have come from v7, you wouldn’t know of any performance issues with the Designer. These were all introduced with v8 and with Perspective in particular. Vision still remains super fast though. Definitely, I can see people just starting with Ignition now and starting with Perspective as being put off and I’ve seen that first-hand with grads. However when they then start working with Vision, it’s a completely different story. Although then it’s the features that were introduced in Perspective such as binding transforms, multi-property binding pasting, custom property object and array data types, different containers, etc. that they then start missing that aren’t there in Vision… I just hope that one day soon Perspective will be at the same performance level as Vision!

Also, nice :laughing:

image
I can’t say i’ve used inTouch before, but i’ve used a whole number of other SCADAs, including CitectSCADA which they now own, and Ignition’s tag management takes a giant crap all over its competition and leaves it on their doorstep. I don’t know what the person writing this was doing?

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really?? which features for example are missing?

I agree, but the main thing is what we have as a result!!!
I can't imagine the other SCADA which gives us the possibility programming Windows based Client and the WEB-based Client... it's just something amazing)) :balloon:
Our Clients are happy to have the possibility control their system with our SCADA based on Ignition! :heart_eyes:

sorry)) I am just so in love with Ignition))) and… so… sorry :grin: I don’t want to read something like Ignition is difficult and bla bla bla))) yes it is, but it’s damn so flexible at all)) You can do almost everything that your manager wants))) any wishes))) :joy:

Basic drawing tools in Perspective. If you want a line or circle,go to make a svg or something.
Copying dozens of components will freeze the designer.Once,I waited one hour…and it worked.
Transform can’t copy and paste.so you need to do it many times,today,200 times I guess…
In the eyes of my customers, the models in the Symbol Factory are outdated.
And so on…
But the advantages are also very obvious.
Easy to deploy and operate remotely,and python,much better than C to use.

I used ArchestrA once for a project a looong time ago and I was really impressed with it compared to Cimplicity at the time, and what it was capable of doing as an MES platform. EG for ArchestrA to set up redundant servers it was a single checkbox. For Cimplicity it was a 30 page document that was full of all sorts of arcane commands.

However in reading that Aveva document, one thing stood out was that referred to the default login credentials. I don’t when it changed, but it changed in 8.x sometime. So the document is still referring to a 7.x version of Ignition even though it’s dated 2020.

However there were some bits and pieces in there that I know people have complained about (EG drawing tools). So while I’ll take the Aveva doc with a large bag of salt, I believe that there are some valid points hidden in there.

Never have I ever had to wait an hour for Designer to copy/paste something, even multiple things, even in perspective. You should contact IA about this if it’s a reproducible issue you have as it sounds like a legitimate bug.

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