[quote=“Bendy22”]The specs sound a lot like the $59 ODROID-U3 computer from HardKernel. Same RAM, eMMC capable, but the quad-core ARM9 on the ODROID runs at 1.7GHz, so it is much faster:
http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php
I have gotten an Ignition client to run successfully on a Raspberry Pi. I have yet to try one on the ODROID, I can’t imagine it being any different from the Pi. With a case (not industrial), power supply, HDMI cable, 8GB eMMC card, and shipping from South Korea, I paid $125 for my ODROID-U3 setup. Your solution comes with an additional Ethernet port and two serial ports which could be added the the ODROID via some of its 4 USB ports. I know putting the description “industrial” on something automatically gives something higher value, but I couldn’t help noticing how similar the specs were between this system I just bought and the specs on your device, as well as the huge price differential.[/quote]
Sorry for being so late to the party, but here we go.
I’ll reverse one of you sentences for the sake of this argument. Increasing the price of a device does not make in industrial. The components in the U3 and our device are vastly different. Our device will have industrial ratings, such as FCC, CE-UL, Div 1 Zone 2 compliance, etc. All of these certifications are required to use a device like this in the environments we all work in. The U3 device not only isnt industrial, its not even rated at all. Putting a device like the U3 into production is a huge liability. U3 causes a fire, plant burns down. Guess what? Using properly rated products in production is a requirement for an insurance claim. Guess what else? These certifications are expensive to acquire. This is part of the reason the hardware is more expensive.
Lets look at what is required to get an industrial rating. Yep, industrial rated components. The 4412 is a consumer rated product, but every component in the device has to be selected and manufactured in a way that would qualify for that rating. HardKernel does not have these ratings, and I’m guessing every component in the U3 is insanely cheap. Every component in our hardware is carefully selected, and is indeed industrial rated. Industrial rated components run in a wider range of temperatures, with an increase range in humidity, altitude, vibration, etc. You also state that we have the “same ram”, which is entirely not true. Again, our ram will operate in much higher temperatures, have a lower MTBF, and can take a larger amount of vibrations. These components, as you can imagine, are not cheap. This is also part of the reason why our hardware is more expensive.
Next, lets look at the actual components. The U3 has a single 10/100 ethernet connection, connected via USB. Anything connected via USB will increase the CPU load during utilization. Our device contains 2 gigabit ethernet ports, both of which are connected via a PCI express bus. This bus is much faster, and requires less resources. Our device also contains a DVI port, which is secure-able (prevents the cable from popping out). The U3 uses HDMI, which is not secure-able. The better components and extra ports we chose add to the price. Could we have connected everything via USB? Yep. Would it make our box more kick ass and awesome (perform better, use less resources to achieve the same performance metrics). Nope. Again, this adds to the price.
Now lets look at the case. The U3 does not come with a case. Our hardware is in a specifically engineered case, to deal with vibration, temperature, etc. This case is also a large factor in getting the ratings and approvals we need for this hardware. Add some more $$ to the total please.
The power system is also vastly different. With the U3, you are relying on a small 5V transformer. I cant even see any capacitors on the pictures of that board. No filtering, no protection is included. With the Exllera hardware, we provide a replaceable power system. This system can accept a wide range of voltage (8 - 31 VDC), and immediately drops the voltage to the required levels, which is required for some of our ratings. The power system filters the power, and protects against over voltage, over current. The capacitor bank also provides brown out protection. For some use cases (high temperature), the some of the power functions can be removed to increase overall reliability, and can even be upgraded. This costs money.
Now, lets look at the operating system. HardKernel provides a vanilla Ubuntu operating system. Outside of what people look for (optimized video drivers), very little operating system optimizations are included. A large amount of un-needed packages are included. What happens if you want a newer version of Java. MySQL? What if there is a vulnerability in the base system? How quickly will you get a fix? How well will it be tested? Are you a Linux expert? Probably not. When something goes wrong, will you know how to fix it on a rarely used system? Probably not. Even Ubuntu Forums will have a hard time supporting a limited device like the U3. Our operating system is built from the kernel up, including only a minimal amount of binaries to run Ignition. No browser, no desktop, etc is included. Everything is rigorously tested (We are lagging partially due to this reason). We also work with Freescale to ensure our drivers are optimized for our requirements. Same goes for Oracle’s Java team. We have access to certain binaries that just aren’t available to the general public. Guess what? Building and optimizing a software stack for our hardware costs money. This adds to the price of our device.
Now, lets look at the level of integration between the OS, the hardware, and Ignition. With the U3, you have to know how to set the time zone in Ubuntu, configure the network adapters, configure the serial ports, etc. In our operating system, it will be an extra menu in the Ignition launcher. Everything is tightly integrated into one package, including technical support tools (metrics, dynamic VPN that can be enabled to allow us access). Again, building this into a repeatable, reliable package takes time and money.
Now, lets look at the companies backing the projects. ODROID supports ODROID hardware, and limited support of the operating system. They will not support your software stack. With our hardware, you have hardware support (If the hardware is having issues, we will overnight new hardware, as an example) as well as our technical support team to help set-up, configure, and troubleshoot the system. You will have operating system update patches available as vulnerabilities are fixed, functionality is added, and base packages are upgraded. You have one company to call, who understands the full stack. We are also one of the highest level of integrators, who know the Ignition product inside and out. Need help on site? We can be there. Troubleshooting in the middle of the night? Call us. We also have support from Freescale, ARM, Oracle, Inductive, as well as highly experienced hardware engineers and embedded systems developers. This also adds to the price.
Now lets look at where the devices are manufactured. HardKernel is based in Taiwan. Manufacturing, engineering, component acquisition, that’s all cheap there. All manufacturing and engineering of Exllera hardware is done in North America. This allows us to maintain a high level of quality, as discussions with the hardware team takes place daily. Progress can be made in an efficient manner, without the language barrier, and general lack of understanding with what we are trying to accomplish. This adds North American jobs, which helps our economies. As you can imagine, North American manufacturing is more expensive than Asian manufacturing, but it is a requirement for us to maintain the high level of integration and reliability a device like this requires. However, this also poses a small risk, not to the project, but to general availability. We have to do smaller production runs. Every time we do a production run, there is tooling that needs to be changed, parts and materials need to be acquired. These parts, as previously stated, are not cheap.
Ultimately, our first run is a relatively small run. Having a ton of pre orders would help drive down the price (Coming soon btw…). But we are talking in the 1,000s, not the 10’s or 20’s. If we were to drop the price and not make money to support our engineering, technical support, etc, then who will you turn to for support if it is no longer available. Not only does our hardware have to stand the test of time, so does the company.
I’ll end on a lighter set of thoughts. I like development boards. I have raspberry pi’s (who do you think had Ignition running on this first?), ODROIDs, plug computers, etc. They are fun for development, learning, and home use. However, they have no place in production. Its about using the right tool for the job. Our hardware is top notch. We have invested over 2 years into this project, because we wanted a solution to a problem we did not have a solution for. A reliable platform to run Ignition, that can be used in almost all use cases. This platform does that, and we are excited for the next iterations of the platform, as the software gets more advanced and new hardware becomes available.
