Industrial PCs vs normal computers

General Discussion
1

So hoping to get some input on hardware choices for ignition systems, both edge installs and full gateways. I have been looking at industrial pcs from onlogic and others as well as regular IT type computers from Dell or whoever. My application would have computers in plant control rooms so there isnt a huge need for rugged, sealed, crazy spec stuff. Industrial mounting might be nice but not really necessary. Which is the best bang for the buck? Is there a significant life expectancy difference between the two? Do the industrial PCs use more reliable components? Seems like more ram, higher grade processors, and more storage could be had for the same money using IT class stuff. Downside is having to delete windows and add extra interface cards. On the other hand if it doesnt look like a normal computer finance and IT will keep there noses out of it.

Thoughts/experiences?

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I think you will find some really good information here:
Building a Custom Perspective Kiosk on Linux Hardware - Ignition - Inductive Automation Forum

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3

Then I run across things like the supermicro servers which seem very reasonable for what you get and would allow replacing componets and expansion if necessary down the road.

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If it is going in a clean, climate controlled environment then I prefer hardware with fans to keep things cool.

If not climate controlled or dirty environment then fans create more problems then they solve.

I also agree with you that a more “black box” in physical appearance tends to make people scared of it and leave it alone.

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5

An industrial computer normally has these features:

  • Low voltage power supply
  • Higher than typical min/max ambient temperature rating
  • Longer term supply chain for parts (typically a single SKU would be guaranteed for 5+ years of supply)
  • Sometimes vibration resistance
  • Sometimes Fanless Operation

Normally this has a few drawbacks:

  • Long term available hardware is not modern, not by a long shot. Generally its old CPU and RAM types that are proven but no longer top specification.
  • Fanless operation means that heat control is important

Other drawbacks include:

  • Because these machines are low volume manufactured, they are hideously expensive for the performance they provide
  • Any hardware that is not consumer spec is generally custom driver dependant
  • Long lead times due to distribution and low volume.

For a machine that exists in harsh environments like a control cabinet, this is perfectly fine, and generally required. For insurance purposes, if it isn't designated specifically by the manufacturer as ready for installation in a control cabinet, then its not allowed to be installed there for fire/electrical risk reasons. Also reference to UL listing, but for the civilised world, that doesn't exist.

For the office/control room? It's a pretty poor choice.
In a control room, use generic desktop PCs, make IT set them up and manage the antivirus, threat protection, logins/authentication and all that stuff. All you need is the client for your chosen visualisation, and possibly Designer as well installed. These things rarely have issues with IT policies, and if they do, it's easy to get exceptions made to enable them to work. Having automation teams manage computers like these is asking for a ransomware event or the likes.
Generic desktops are also throwaway, you can have multiple spares sitting there ready for deployment for the same cost as one "industrial" unit.

For the gateways, use real server hardware from normal server manufacturers. Servers are designed for five nines of downtime a year: 99.999% uptime, or a total allowable downtime of approximately 5.26 minutes. Thats better than pretty much anything "industrial" and it's like that for a number of reasons. It is also much cheaper than getting the same performance out of some nasty industrial PC.

Your mileage may vary, but with a competent IT team, I always make them fully responsible for the entire server OS that is in use, including backups, updates, security, firewalls, permissions and uninterruptible power. I always use the automation team to manage the installed gateway software that is on the OS, as they are the SME for that product.
Ignition is a very easy service to run, it is not very reliant on the OS it runs on, has very few dependencies and only needs a couple of ports opened for full usage.

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6

Unfortunately I will have to manage the hardware side too, as far as gateways. Our IT department is massively understaffed and cant maintain what they already have. Not that I am qualified to manage anything but Im better than having no one manage it. IT will manage the security between the internal network and the outside world, and all the client devices will fall under them, im just worried about the gateway machines.

This is where I like the industrial computers because I know IT won’t fight me on managing them because they look like automation hardware not office hardware, and I could just hide them in the control cabinet and let it run.

I really like the idea of real server hardware for all the reasons you mentioned. Im looking at 4 edge panels and 1 central full gateway. Kinda hard to find a server that wouldnt be ridiculously overpowered and expensive for an edge panel.

Commercial grade PC would surely run this stuff fine, but then they are still consumer grade.

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You should absolutely refuse to deploy on Windows if you don't have a competent IT department to manage security.

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Well that is part of me managing the hardware side too. I absolutely want to dump windows and run linux on all the gateway machines.

One benefit of the IPCs is i can order a lot of then with Ubuntu. Actually finally found some pro workstations from dell that can be had with factory linux too. I could delete windows and reload but if I dont have to thats great.

9

So for edge panel installs and smaller central gateway installs is there really anything terribly wrong with running a good commercial workstation PC.

Ive been looking at these today as edge panel machines, and the same case with better guts as a central. The system I will be building is not huge, probably 5-7 thousand tags, maybe 10-25 % history tags with rates of changes in minutes not seconds, 5-10 perspective clients probably. Seems like just about anything would run it and I can get a lot more power out of these for way less money than an industrial PC.

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I have a customer that uses units similar to these throughout the plant for Perspective clients. Overkill for Perspective, but they buy them in bulk for multiple uses. They just bolt them to the back of a touchscreen monitor mount and run power and Ethernet to a location close by.

Please note that their plants are very clean and climate controlled.

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