Make license permanent instead of leased

I have added a feature request asking to let us have the Maker’s Edition license permanent instead of leased on a 4 hour basis.

Not every project I do has any internet connection or might only have internet when I bring it back to the home base to upload it’s data, but I still would like to have the ability to view the data live as I use it out and about.

The ability to make the license permanent would be fantastic, even if I had to pay a small amount for that option.

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Making the license permanent would make it effectively impossible for IA to distinguish legitimate personal use from abuse.

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I fail to see how. The Maker’s Edition license can’t be used for full fledged version of ignition. Just because there exist people who would potentially abuse something doesn’t mean you should punitively punish people who are actually using it.

Besides, the 4 hour lease doesn’t stop anyone from abuse. You can easily spin up fake e-mails to get more licenses and someone who wants to use it commercially in a production facility will most likely be able to get internet to it. The main people being hindered by the lease are individuals who would like to use it for their personal project in remote areas.

It’s too bad we can’t down vote a feature request. If we could you would have my -1.

Well I am glad that you have no applications that would require this feature, but it seems silly to begrudge me for having the limitation of needing a permanent license for those projects that won’t be near an internet source but still wanting to use makers edition.:thinking:

Then pay for it, otherwise deal with the free

I literally said I’d be willing to pay for it.

That said, I fee like maybe you’re misunderstanding the target demographic of Maker’s Edition. It’s intended for personal or educational projects, not commercial applications where a $1500 or $20,000 license is a part of doing business. This feature request is specifically intended to improve the experience for those personal projects that wouldn’t have internet access to renew a lease, or those educational projects where a teacher might not have the authorization to connect any device up to the internet.

I’ve worked in the IT department for an ISD and where I was an unauthorized device would not have been able to have any access to the network, not even internet access. I’ve worked at educational trade shows where I wouldn’t be able to get internet access to renew a lease and be unable to teach others about the benefit of teaching students with a platform like Ignition Maker’s Edition.

Telling me to “deal with the free” ignores the point of a feature request. If every request was responded with “deal with the way it is” there would be no point in letting people make requests that would improve the product.

If you don’t need this feature, good for you. Makes no sense to be acerbic towards those who do need it simply because they do need it though.

Hi @jlandwerlen, I believe this conversation is a valid one to have and shouldn’t be shut down so quickly.

Me and @abishur have had the conversation about it in this thread where it is acknowledged that this could be easily exploited.

I personally don’t agree with a permanent license as it us too easy to exploit as @pturmel suggested. But I believe there could be other methods that could be utilised for @abishur to get the functionality he requires (even if it means selling the soul of your first born child :smile:).

Maker is a free resource that I’m very grateful to IA for releasing so I don’t want to see it get destroyed by malicious individuals. But IA has clearly had a good history of listening to it’s customers, so I believe @abishur viewpoint should be heard. The only caveat to this is that there can’t be the expectation that this will be done because only a couple of individuals desire it.

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Have you reached out to your sales rep? One, why can’t you use Ignition vs Maker? You get unlimited 2 hour demo, no Internet needed. Not sure if IA has anything against using it for that purpose. Two, maybe they will give you a license for the purpose you need. It’s worth getting into the conversation with them.

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Have you reached out to your sales rep? One, why can’t you use Ignition vs Maker?

Reaching out to a sales rep is a good idea, they have always been extremely helpful in the past. As for why not use Ignition vs Maker, I guess the question for me would become why have Maker in the first place then? The page on IA’s website discussing Maker’s Edition specifically references it as the edition for personal or educational projects. If I give feedback mentioning something that would be beneficial to an educator or personal projects it seems to be missing the spirit of the edition to respond with “just use Ignition then” :wink:

I personally don’t agree with a permanent license as it us too easy to exploit as @pturmel suggested.

I have to disagree :slight_smile: There is already a license for Edge vs the full version Ignition vs Maker’s. None of the three of them can be swapped out for the other so designating a license for a potential paid version of Maker’s wouldn’t be outside the realm of feasibility.

For something to be a viable method of exploitation prevention, it has to create a hurdle that the average individual cannot bypass. Limiting the license count doesn’t meet this criteria as e-mail addresses and new account can easily be spun up. 4 hour leases likewise wouldn’t count because most production environment have reliable internet access. These two features ultimately only impede those who, like myself, who will already play by the rules.

The license agreement popup, to be fair, is a legit means of exploitation prevention as it creates a hurdle that the average individual cannot easily bypass. And while an individual might be willing to abuse the license and use it commercially, it’s harder to find a large clientele who would turn a blind eye every time their system booted.

The only caveat to this is that there can’t be the expectation that this will be done because only a couple of individuals desire it.

Ah the catch-22, you are of course correct and I do agree with your overall points and hope that my feedback might be merged with what people at IA are thinking about to create an improvement that is beneficial to those using Maker’s Edition (a name I believe was intentionally chosen to grab the attention of those in the Maker’s community that has existed for quite a long time now) while at the same time protecting their business. I routinely recommend Ignition to each client I meet and do not want it going away.

One of the issues I recognize is that the current setup is going to make it hard to get people in the Maker’s community or education sector to see it as a viable option to get more feedback. On the maker’s side a display that only works when I have internet access can be a hurdle for a lot of people (though certainly still meet the needs of the many, let’s not overstate positions here :slight_smile: ). On the education side, I’d be faced with either requiring students to create an account so my entire class could use it or have 3 machines for all my classes.

Far from me whining about free stuff, I’m excited to see this edition, an edition I’ve wanted for YEARS and want to make sure it lasts for a long time while at the same time existing as an additional potential source for sales instead of just being a freebie (though I do love the fact that IA is so cool as to just make this free, that’s classy right there)

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You can pay a “small amount”, but small is a matter of opinion. For Bill Gates it would be insignificant :slight_smile:

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@jlandwerlen view about reaching out to your sales rep is definitely a good idea. Even if they can’t supply you with the licenses you require they may be able to advise you on other methods that suit your needs. Unfortunately, as @nminchin suggested, you are probably still looking at a fair amount of money, especially with the way you are aiming to use it (spooling up several Gateways).

I can’t argue with that :smiley:. Anyone with enough brain cells can get around any preventative measure. However, with the license requiring an internet connection IA do have the power to revoke the renewal of the license anywhere in the world if they believe it is being exploited. I believe this is the main hurdle to this feature request. If you have a permanent offline license it is hard for IA to track how it’s used, and even harder for them to revoke it.

Maybe a fair compromise would be to have an extended lease period, whereby you have to do a bit more to get the license, for example be active in the community and with IA. Could be based on a model that requires approval from an admin each time it’s renewed (although admittedly this idea wouldn’t scale well).

The final point I will raise is that I believe IA also harvest a small amount of anonymised data on how the Gateway is being used to improve their product, which obviously needs an internet connection (I hope this doesn’t tangent off into a debate about the morals of data harvesting :laughing:). However, I believe/hope this is a very minor decision in the reason for this licensing model.

Ultimately, your views should be heard regardless of whether they are agreeable with majority or not. I believe that everyone involved in the conversation so far has an interest in protecting what a great thing Maker is, which is why it has spawned some emotional based arguments. I hope IA appreciates how strongly individuals are willing to defend their IP :slight_smile:, in my opinion it’s good to see. However, the forums sole purpose should be to discuss ideas and issues fully to highlight concerns and possible solutions. I think this thread is producing some healthy views and I’m enjoying the debate :smiley: I hope it continues :slight_smile:

Not true. An unlicensed Maker or Edge installation can be converted to full Ignition by editing ignition.conf.

Any classroom environment that needs to spool up multiple copies can use full Ignition’s two-hour trial mode.

Or any “emergency” need away from an internet connection.

Looking at the other side of the problem

How bad would it be to connect to the Internet (distance/coverage/price)?
Is it a permanent or temporary/yearly setup?

Just tossing a few cents in here. If someone wants to work WITH Ignition to try and come up with a legitimate solution to this problem that seems to me to be a valid question, then I applaud them. Indeed I can see some situations where the makers license for fun personal projects would be internet disconnected. We have batted a few back and forth ourselves. That said it is laughably easy to hack the entire licensing structure (curiosity made me look (also we are licensed so no attacky :wink: )) of a full version of Ignition so the OPs willingness to work WITH Inductive should be applauded. For example a brew station control system that is in an outbuilding that you cannot EASILY get internet to why punish that user who loves Ignition and wants to use it for their hobby within the scope of the Makers licensing but is battered because of that lack of internet? Just my thoughts.

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I’m ‘aware’ of a couple of ways this could possibly be done, but I haven’t ever had the need to do it (please don’t hurt me IA :laughing:)

Is it really that hard to get Internet these days (as the majority of US at least)? How many of us have Smartphones we can use as a hot spot?

@jlandwerlen yes. it can be an issue ESPECIALLY in rural areas. Even with cellular reception.

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I agree, the majority of cases the user will likely have an internet connection, but I’m aware of a few places here in the UK where it’s patchy at best. On the flip-side we can’t expect IA to produce a solution for every scenario.

At this point, I think we are at the stage for an IA employee to weigh up all the views aired and express what could be on the table (if they dare stick their head above the parapet :laughing:).

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Im sure one of them could be convinced to ride out… provided they can find their coconut shells.

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