Is there way with Vision or Perspective to have the GUI continue to run at the tools if the network connection is lost?
Not so much with Perspective, but this is what Local Client Fallback with Vision is for: Local Client Fallback | Ignition User Manual
Do keep in mind that Vision's local client fallback still needs some gateway to talk to the machinery.
Thanks. What are your thoughts on loading Perspective on each machine?
This is, in general, one of the primary use cases for Edge Panel, which can be used to run either Perspective or Vision clients. Though, the end user experience at the plant floor level (when fallback is necessary) is definitely better with Vision.
Fundamentally, the most important thing to know is that neither visualization system will run at all without a gateway to talk to. The Ignition Gateway is the thing that actually communicates with your PLC(s), your database(s), etc. Vision clients are running full JVMs, and technically could, but deliberately do not attempt to run if they lose connection to their host gateway.
To make sure I am following
If you have Edge installed the tool it will run unconnected for 35 days and then sync when the connection is restored. Perspective or Vision
If you use Local Client Fallback it will load local project with "minimal realtime information that you need to keep your operation running". Vision Only
1 Like
Until 8.3, that is. You'll be able to allow some limited functionality in the native apps with some new features we're adding.
If you have Edge Panel, then you are in charge of manually creating a "slimmed down" version of your 'main' project (possibly an exact copy, it's going to entirely depend on your circumstances). Then, in the event of a network disconnect, a Vision client that is running connected to your 'main' project can seamlessly (if running on the same physical hardware as your Edge Panel gateway) switch to that "slimmed down" version of your project.
The 35 days stuff only applies to historical data syncing, where the Edge gateway can buffer history data locally in the event of a network outage and, once the network returns, send that data back through to the main system.
I would strongly encourage you to contact our sales and/or sales engineering folks for a more in depth talk about this, where you can outline what your needs are and they can tailor their advice to you better. I'm just a guy familiar with the technical side of things.
2 Likes
Thank you very much for all the info. Just trying to get an idea where to start. It sounds like the robust solution would be Vision with Edge.
But If I have Ignition Edge out at the machine, and I have it set for Perspective, and my local project is in fact a single Perspective screen with scaled down tag database, would local client not work as expected (i.e. cant see main gateway, fallback to local edge project)
So I'd have perspective workstation running in kiosk mode talking to main gateway. Main gateway goes away, client falls back to my edge project.
Am I missing something?
That's basically how it would work. You'd configure this in Perspective Workstation on the Edge client. If your connection to the main gateway also running Perspective is lost, but you're still running locally, it would fail over to your local client. Once network connection is restored to the main gateway, it can recover back to the main gateway, or stay on the local client (this is configurable).
Thank you!
On fallback doesn't it use a local gateway, "But if communication to the central Gateway is lost, the Client can automatically retarget to a project that you specify in the local Gateway". I am assuming the local gateway would still be connected to the PLC on the tool.
This is with just Vision not Edge. I am trying to understand why you would need Edge.
Vision itself cannot talk to a PLC. That is what you need Edge for. Fallback connects your Vision client to an alternate gateway, typically Edge.
Sorry I was referring to Edge Panel. So you would need Edge IIoT running on the tool for the fallback to work? The Edge Panel not having any sql is deal breaker.
If you need a DB, then you have to fall back to a standard edition of Ignition. I would not use fallback for such a case, but a redundant gateway.
(Edge Panel is Edge IIoT plus a user interface.)
Is the following scenario possible
- Standard Vision running connected to our main gateway on Tool #1 with DB
- The tool has its own switch that is connected to the PLC
- Connection is lost to main server but still connected to PLC
- Fallback using IIoT as the local gateway without DB.
Vision itself doesn't connect to a PLC. If you have Edge, it can be connected simultaneously.
Sure, but you said not having the DB is a deal breaker. Which is it?
(If the main gateway is physically in the same site as the PLC, then I wouldn't use Edge at all. Spend the time and money on a robust network instead. Dual links with Rapid Spanning Tree or similar.)
The scenario that I am looking at is being temporarily disconnected from the main gateway, that is at the same site, and still being able to control the machine for a short time until the connection is restored.
If we use just Edge Panel then I have no DB even when I am connected to the main gateway but if I use Vision I will have DB, so I am trying to figure how I use the Local Client Fallback.
I understand Vision doesn't directly talk to the PLC and needs a gateway.
I also understand that if I am connected to the local gateway that I will not be connected to the database.
You keep saying things like this. This is very confused. Vision is applicable whether you use Standard Ignition or Edge Panel. Vision is just the user interface. It can be pointed at a standard gateway, or it can be pointed at a local Edge Panel gateway. Vision doesn't talk to databases itself--just standard gateways do that.
(Edge Panel can use either Vision or Perspective--not both--and would need to be Vision if you want to use Vision Client Fallback.)
For fallback to work, both your standard gateway and your edge gateway will need to independently talk to your PLC. MQTT is not a good choice for this application if tag writes are needed, as Sparkplug only allows one gateway to do so.
Really, you should be using standard Ignition redundancy. (And you won't have to rewrite your application to fit Edge limitations when it falls over.)
If you are deploying Edge in the same site as standard Ignition, you are screwing up.