Can we get a mapping of the old print command like used in Vision to Perspective?
It is sooo damn annoying having to type out system.perspective.print(whateverthehell) to get a quick output to the console…
Leave the long command for browser console printing/testing but give us back the simple print whateverthehell.
You never lost it, it's a python built in and goes to your gateway wrapper logs.
I mean the local designer console…
Wrapper logs mean I have to go outside of the designer for the printout.
I'm not a fan of this, the less overwriting of industry standard functionality, the easier it is to have developers with full stack experience work on the systems.
I would rather have a gateway logs window that is added to the designer in the same way that the system console exists. Then you get your wish and don't change standard functionality of the underlying frameworks.
Don't hold your breath. print is a fundamental behavior of jython and will always go to the JVM's stdout. In gateway scope, this isn't, and cannot practically be, connected to your designer's JVM console.
Embrace the suck.
I would like to see language translations be improved. Having to manually type in every single unique string into the Translation Database in Perspective is one of those situations where it makes Ignition look like a product that was released half-cocked–true or not–because a lot of engineers, especially legacy engineers, see features like this as essential, basic, bare-minimum functionality that every HMI platform should have, and quite frankly has had for decades.
Same thing for momentary push buttons in Perspective. I told one of our more senior engineers that Perspective can’t do momentary push buttons, and he’s basically written off Ignition as a viable platform for anything as a result. In his mind, that is part of the essential, minimum, basic feature set. To him, releasing a visualization product without momentary push buttons is like releasing the most advanced automobile in the world without windshield wipers or reverse gear. There may be all the technical reasons in the world for it not having those things, and it may not be IA’s fault, but at the end of the day, Allen-Bradley can do it. Automation Direct can do it. Siemens can do it. Perspective can’t. Fair or not, technical reasoning aside, that’s the headline. That’s what people notice. And if the excuse is “it’s a limitation of web browsers,” the response from 100% of the old-school engineers I know is going to be “then you shouldn’t have made it web browser based. This is the industrial world. Don’t use technology that isn’t up to the task.”
I agree, someone made the mistake of choosing perspective when you should have chosen vision 
Not in a browser, they can't. And most of them have exactly the same problems, but less obvious, in their non-browser products. I've experienced it for both AB PanelViews and Automation Direct C-Mores.
Vision can do it as reliably as the other brands' non-browser products, and can do it very reliably with the right non-standard techniques.
If your "senior" engineer has never had a momentary button get stuck, then I question just how experienced s/he really is.
IA reps are telling us and our customers point-blank not to use Vision for new projects.
I agree that is ridiculous and ill-advised. I am sorry you were misled like that.
Call them out by name and make them defend this advice, or throw the appropriate bosses under the bus.
I use a macro for the perspective print.
I think it’s really a perception of engineers who are used to doing Machine-level HMIs vs SCADA engineers. I know that you run into the same issue with iFix, Aveva, etc. and when I bring it up to people who work with those platforms they’re not surprised by it at all.
I guess I kind of just resent Perspective being pushed so hard by sales and even some technical people, being told that Vision is no longer being actively developed or improved, that Perspective should be the default choice, and then come on here to read “you should have used Vision” with Perspective-related issues. Seems like there’s a disconnect between the official messaging I get from IA and the actual users of the product.
Plus, as a Systems Integrator, it is often not up to me what I use. I often don’t pick the version or the platform. I’m told what I’m going to do it in. So it’s not just me being told Perspective is the future and Vision is the past.
It would be great for language translations to be easier. I had to do that on a project… and then all of a sudden someone else had to do that 
I don’t expect momentaries to be supported in perspective ever. I know a lot of senior engineers that insist on using them but that is a bad practice and they are wrong imo. Momentaries can get stuck and they are often used in processes where a momentary getting stuck can cause problems.
I’ve had senior engineers argue with me over my demand to redo PLC logic to eliminate momentaries but I’ve never had a customer disappointed that they can run their plant from a web browser with no additional cost for additional clients.
Personally, I don’t like momentary buttons and will push hard to get the reset logic in the PLC for them.The only time you can’t do that is a jog function, which shouldn’t be on a touch-panel imo. You need that physical feedback and touch panels don’t provide that well enough. You can’t feel for a button on a screen, so you have to look at the screen to press the button, and then you’re not looking at the thing you’re supposed to be looking at. Then there’s the whole thing where you can create dead spots on the panel by repeatedly touching the same spot.
I’m not the one that needs to be convinced. I’m just tired of having to do the convincing.
This is basically true. It is stable, near bullet-proof, for the things it currently can do.
Not quite true. It is getting bug fixes, and it is getting new features around the edges where it can be done with extremely low risk. Like the recent addition of Document properties. And the conversion to websockets and the addition of Identity Provider support.
Yes. And this is a problem that should be called out. The IA reps blindly offering advice without application considerations should be slammed.
Also keep in mind that there are poorly taught engineers/developers who don't even know what a momentary button is. Some developers think they are one-shot actions.
That’s really good to hear.
I think my takeaway from this discussion is to take the big Perspective push with a bigger grain of salt.
I get it. The idea of jogging things from a web page… how a bout a mobile device… not a good idea.
Anything involving safety should be a wired button because that allows you to limit where they can trigger the functionality so it’s way easier to design safety into the machine. I’ve seen operators do totally crazy things with momentaries like rest a broom handle on a momentary button that lowers the hood on an industrial fryer. What happens if something or someone is in harm’s way? It wasn’t a consideration in that case.
I have a strong preference for Perspective development and mostly do Perspective apps since 2020, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with doing new Vision apps. Vision is a reliable product and there’s certainly nothing wrong with using it.