I know the panel edition is free and hence IA wants people to stump for a server license to enjoy the benefits of trending, database access etc.
Part of my job involves looking after our on-site power generation, to us local HMIs usually enjoy certain advantages: ability to operate equipment through network outages (i.e. during power outages), pretty simple in terms of not having to worry about operating system shenanigans as well as local trending etc
The thing is I really need trending if I am going to put ignition in place instead of a panelview. Most panelview HMIs come with basic trending support.
I was thinking this could be accomplished in Ignition in the form of a specialized trending component that stores at the most a day or so of information in local memory. Obviously I am only interested in time-series, SQL tags historian style information.
You could make this so that it is only available to customers with a server license and/or a tech support contract in order to monetize this feature (i.e. separate module with its own license).
Thoughts?
Also any update on building a jeOS for Ignition clients/panelview editions?
You can do realtime trends using the Vision Panel edition. We don’t have a pre-built component but through scripting you can log data to memory. Take a look at this post:
I hadn’t seen that post before but have also experimented along the same lines.
The biggest problem is that the dataset no longer updates when the screen isn’t open, so you have to build the dataset into something that is always open (i.e. a navigation strip or some such). -Then the trouble becomes referencing something in an object outside the current window (since it is unlikely your trend will be in the navigation bar).
It’d be great if there was either a component that could handle this, or alternatively if there was a ‘live caching mode’ where you could set a window to be continuously running in the background, similar to setting a screen to be cached in RSV. (as far as I’m aware, cached screens in Ignition do not continue to run when closed)
You just need to use a client tag. In the SQLTags browser you can create a client dataset tag under the client folder. So rather than updating a dataset on the window you can update the tag. The chart’s dataset can be bound to the client tag.
it is still not exactly a simple process though is it? I’m not sure how the run of the mill HMI programmer is going to be able to figure that out.
Perhaps you could expand on the posts in the original forum post you referenced with a step by step method of setting up the client dataset tag, driving its value by using the runscript function, accessing the dataset, converting it to pydataset, appending the value with the time stamp using a java calender object, reconverting it to an Ignition format dataset, and passing the value back to the original client tag dataset.
Just trying to save the next guy from the head vs brick wall feeling!!
Sure, I totally understand. We should have a pre-built component that does realtime charts. I can’t promise when that component will be made but there is a way around it right now. I will add a feature request for a component like that.
I also remember some talk of creating a bare bones linux distribution with the idea of being able to run just Ignition, did anything ever come of this?
I saw the recent post doing something similar in Win 7 (i.e. not showing operating system gui, just launching ignition straight.) Was wondering if the same was ever implemented for Linux? (completely beyond my ability, by the way).
I’m asking from the perspective of setting up dedicated Ignition clients without letting the user get into the operating system?
Password protect your GRUB, Runlevel5, GDM autologin, don’t use a window manager and boot right into the java ap. When java dies, X restarts and the process starts over again… Plus, disable ctrl-alt-del, session swapping, and the remote x kill cmd.
I guess if you were ok w/ ‘general lockdown’ , mainly trying to keep out the ave user you could probably impliment this in a couple hours. Wouldn’t stop an advanced user… but floor guys tend to have things like Forklifts anyhow
Password protect your GRUB, Runlevel5, GDM autologin, don’t use a window manager and boot right into the java ap. When java dies, X restarts and the process starts over again… Plus, disable ctrl-alt-del, session swapping, and the remote x kill cmd.[/quote]
At lest he has a place to start Googling, if only to figure out what language your talking.
Alex- you might want to just talk to your account rep about what you want to do. Without getting too much into various architectures, a single client vision license would let you access the database, which might help.
(Not to say some sort of realtime trend support isn’t a good idea, it is, but there might be a way to accomplish what you want in a less hacky way right now).
[quote=“Robert”][quote=“Dravik”]Hmm… shouldn’t be that hard.
Password protect your GRUB, Runlevel5, GDM autologin, don’t use a window manager and boot right into the java ap. When java dies, X restarts and the process starts over again… Plus, disable ctrl-alt-del, session swapping, and the remote x kill cmd.[/quote]
At lest he has a place to start Googling, if only to figure out what language your talking.[/quote]
If I get time I’ll work something up as an example. I’m moving all our network gear from Solarwinds to MRTG/Nagios right now anyhow. So i’m in linux dev mode anyhow!
Going the technical Windows route, you can use Jordan’s approach to replace the normal shell (Explorer) with a custom Ignition loader. This will also get you an “appliance-ized” terminal.
Obviously there are many Linux based approaches to this.
[quote=“AlexW”]Thanks Travis,
I also remember some talk of creating a bare bones linux distribution with the idea of being able to run just Ignition, did anything ever come of this?
I saw the recent post doing something similar in Win 7 (i.e. not showing operating system gui, just launching ignition straight.) Was wondering if the same was ever implemented for Linux? (completely beyond my ability, by the way).
I’m asking from the perspective of setting up dedicated Ignition clients without letting the user get into the operating system?[/quote]
Usually with our site, being in islanded generation mode, we are trying to build things for ‘end of the world’ scenarios. i.e. entire site is black, half the powerhouse is black, and you have a limited reservoir of air available to start your engines with and restore station power… not a good time to be relying on server connections.
Hence the interest in a robust local HMI that supports trending without server connections (and limited operating system visibility).
So why not go for an industrial panelview such as a pv+? well when things are up and running, its nice having all the database connectivity and a standardized HMI to go to.
I believe Colby was referring to a cheap license for that stand alone terminal.
As an aside, IA and partners are investigating solutions that should lend themselves nicely to situations like you’re describing (single remote terminal designed to operate alone, but network/db connectivity is nice when it’s up).
I think a manufacturer coming up with a prepackaged industrial PC w/touchscreen with a cut down operating system and running Ignition panel edition out of the box would have a lot of value to industry. (i.e. something that has a part number and can be called up about for product support, rather than some custom solution that some engineer put together 10 years ago and who can no longer be contacted when it breaks)
