I am a new bee for Ignition and I am working on a project where I am developing a new SCADA for client.
I have started in Perspective but I couldn’t implement few features as we can do in Vision.
ex. export chart to CSV. or open client in Fullscreen and lock operator to excess desktop.
So should I use Perspective or Vision to develop my application to make future proof
Locking the operator out of other functionality should be pretty easy. You can put the browser in full screen and if the operator doesn’t have a keyboard, he can’t exit. There are even separate “Kiosk” Linux distributions that are meant just for that purpose (open a browser page, and lock the user into it).
In regards to the csv, all you have to do is take the dataset from the trend and convert it to a CSV then download it. Take a look at the adHoc trends page on the Ignition Exchange, there is a “Save as CSV” button that does exactly what you want:
In regards to the “local device functionality”, IA will be releasing a “workstation edition” for perspective with Ignition 8.1 that will essentially make it a hybrid, web app but in a “kiosk executable” format like Vision. No guarantees as to what functionality it will add at first, but it will at least cover the kiosk mode mentioned above, maybe some other neat stuff too.
I work almost exclusively in Perspective at this point, when possible, and I personally think that if you can get into the mindset of how to make things happen in Perspective, that you will be much better off in the long run. I would say at this point (other than the local device peripheral access like serial) there is probably nothing I could do in Vision that I couldn’t in Perspective, and a whole lot more I can do in Perspective that I can’t in Vision. I have also been using Perspective full time since it came out, and have had about 150 support tickets in total while it was going through it’s buggy first iterations (much better now) so you’re mileage may vary. You will definitely find those here who will say Vision all day, but it’s really up to what you feel Is best for your specific implementation.
One thing you should ware of the development time for diagram HMI take at least 4 time longer compare to vision.
The perspective environment is really slow compare to vision. Even runtime is slower.
There so no drawing tools in perspective so you should use other drawing packages and back and forth between software to get the result.
The undo doesn’t work as should be and if you done some thing wrong you should close designer and open it again to undo what you’ve done.
You will face several crashes(black screen) in large views and need to re open designer and of course lost your work.
But in the end the result is more beautiful, fun to use and it is more likely in near future every body vote to use perspective over vision. Every thing you can done in vision you also can do in perspective and even more but at cost of a lot of development time.
Specially you can achieve better animation and more powerful component.
Its interesting that you have that experience because I have ended up with almost the opposite? It may be because I started with Ignition about two years ago and have been working almost full-time in Perspective since the release, but I find it MUCH faster to develop in Perspective personally. For instance I just did an entire project in vision, that I ended up doing afterwards again in Perspective (for personal testing sake) to compare the development time, and through the use of theming and properly dynamic views, I took about 20% as long to build the same thing. Granted it had already been done once, but it was just simpler to create dynamic and reusable views/templates in Perspective to me.
I am not saying this will be the case for everyone, just my experience.
I am sure that it is due to a different in design philosophies and methodology, for instance I never really used the Vision drawing tools that much, occasionally but I would prefer to do a lot of that type of work with Adobe Illustrator.
You can right click on the “tab” at the bottom of the ope view list, and click “Close and revert” to undo any major changes that closing the designer would handle. It is true that the list of actions included in the Undo list is lacking a few things still, but this should at least make it so you dont need to open and close the designer as often.
It’s much faster for me to be able to quickly throw something together in vision than it is in perspective.
The biggest slowdowns definitely were the designer experience (very slow to click into various containers and the black screen issue nader mentioned) as well as trying to debug things (i wish errors would log to the browser console on top of the gateweay console without me manually having to manually put try except clauses in my code)
All my coworkers who work strictly in vision feel the same way when trying to get into perspective to build something simple. There definitely is a much steeper learning curve as well as, like you said, a much different design posibility / methodology.
What I said is for now but I believe in future it will get better.
I’ve done three project in vision and in the end I personally use perspective in every case now but I face a lot of problem with perspective in regard of performance. For example consider opening and saving a view. Vision is much faster in my experience it is at least 3 times in best case.
The vision drawing tools is really nice and also you can deep into any svg object in object tree but instead in perspective you have to find the svg element you need in DOM element tree which is very hard and time consuming .
Working with nested container is really laggy and hard specially when double clicking on object doesn’t work for first time.
If you have an template in vision window double click on it open the source but in perspective for embedded view you should find it on view tree and open it.
Even switch between open views in perspective take a lot of time.
Lastly I face new problem with embedded view as you already know. Now I have to redesign my view to make my embedded view as low as possible.
But I’d like to mention love perspective and if in my power I suggest it to client even it cost me a lot of engineering time
One thing I love about perspective is if you want to create something that is done before on web page you can go and learn the trick and use in perspective.