Ignition Education License --- USD 99/-. Possible?

General Discussion
1

I can see Ignition as a fantastic platform for students, trainers and enthusiasts to learn and teach automation skills. They can play with Java, Python, Javascript, MQTT, JSON, Linux, Raspberry Pi and so on. They can build their Home automation, Arduino PLC, Machine Learning, AI projects etc and showcase their skills.

IA University is offering very high quality free Ignition training online. I think, Ignition Education license would be the next best thing that could happen. India and China are huge markets for Education license. India produces around 4 million engineering and science graduates every year apart from millions of high school graduates. 100’s of automation schools are offering job oriented training courses across the nation. They all need an affordable, powerful platform for their business.

My wish:

Non-transferable, single user Ignition Education (non-commercial) license, renewable every 24 months — USD 99/-

License is valid for learning, teaching and educational institutions only. I can see a huge potential in Indian subcontinent + China.

Why people would pay for something when they can download Ignition and get 2 hours run time license for free?.

Students and programmers want to showcase their skills on the web 24x7 to create opportunities. Educational Institutions need a serious commitment from IA to structure their training courses accordingly. When they pay, they feel that they have a right to do business. They don’t want to restart Ignition every 2 hours.

We must keep in mind that Educational institutions, trainers and teachers are the one who are going to create respect and recognition for “Ignition certified professionals” in the job market. They can tell the employers, “an Ignition certified candidate can work on any SCADA. He can work on Linux, Python and Java too. You get 3 for the price of 1”.

Spread Ignition. Make Ignition ubiquitous. Create millions of jobs and opportunities. What do you think?.

2

I don't see what this license model would grant that the existing trial structure doesn't.
Ignition is already the most accessible and beginner friendly SCADA/HMI product available, and the completely free IU program already provides a verifiable "credential" for new users and students to showcase their familiarity with the product.

Students and programmers want to showcase their skills on the web 24x7 to create opportunities.

This is the only real point I can see, that students could offer a demo project (almost like a webpage/app for webdev students) to serve as a portfolio piece. However, I think this benefit is overstated, and the risk for abuse is understated. Especially given the real lack of IP enforcement in developing nations, I believe IA would be taking an undue risk for no real reward. Like I said, Ignition is already the most open and easy to learn SCADA system. A new user/student could just as easily complete the IU program, put up their own trial gateway, put up a website resume/blog, and offer project demos to anyone who contacts them.

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Can you please mention few ways, how one could abuse?. BTW,

  1. More than 80% of MS Windows/MS office users never paid a single penny to Microsoft ever. How do you think, Bill Gates became the richest man in the world?.

  2. Gmail, Hotmail, Youtube, Twitter, FB, WhatsApp, Google are used by almost 2 billion people. They don't charge a single penny. How do you think, they rule the world?.

  3. Ubuntu and Centos is 100% free. Fedora, Suse etc are offering 100% free community license. They don't care, if the client is using the free community version for commercial purpose or not. How do you think, they make billions?.

  4. Postgre SQL is 100% free. MySQL and numerous other DB vendors are offering free community license. How do you think, they make money?.

4

Please don’t cheapen Ignition by turning it into an advertising platform.
Inductive Automation saw a need for SCADA (and more) provided by a different business model and they built it.
Server licensing with unlimited clients and unlimited tags is an entirely new business model.

How about 1% of full license cost for 48 hours? or, extended that out to $45 per semester - cheaper than any book!
Only a few $ to showcase but cheaper to buy a full license after proof-of-concept. There are millions of possible options.

Every company has the right to choose their business model - let’s not try to brow-beat Inductive Automation into changing their successful business model into something else because it suits us. Leave that to their own management, to pursue the market as they see fit. We all get to vote with our money. Let’s focus on our own work and let IA focus on the continuous improvements they make to Ignition.

The two hour trial is good enough for educational purposes, proof of concept and even development.
Two hours for anyone for free as often as you want is awesome.

Possible abuses are as vast as there are people.
For $99 per year, I would be doing “educational” stuff for my Boy Scout Troop, my wife’s 4H club, the Non-Profit Theatre where I volunteer (an educational organization), my local precinct (educating my voting neighbors), my farm (always learning), my church (yes, I’m a student there).
For IA to determine when a license (a person, a project) crosses the line between “education” and “commercial” or all the shades of gray between would require a whole new division for IA and increase costs for all of us.

Social media is a great place to showcase a video of your work taken during the two hour trial.

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5

I think that you’ve implicitly acknowledged the ways in which such a licensing structure could be abused in your edit that affirms the financial benefits of giving software away freely. That is not the business model of Ignition, and I wouldn’t presume to know the motivations behind the current model nor IA’s direction as a company. I would also avoid bench-marking the successes of a much younger and privately held company against those of older multinational conglomerates/corporations. These are not fair comparisons to make for a number of reasons, most notably because their products and target audiences are decidedly disparate from those of IA.

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6

You have to see my proposition from the shareholder's perspective. They invest in a business for profit. Nothing else. My business philosophy is "Show the buyer, how he can make money with your product. He will become your salesman!!". I am just taking forward this idea.

Look at this scenario:

More than 90% of the users who have downloaded 2 hours trial version of Ignition will NEVER buy a license, because they can't afford. They are all either job seekers or enthusiasts. With USD 99/- education license model, most of the job seekers will see an opportunity to create their own jobs and enthusiasts will find it affordable.

Most of them may even run non-critical sites like home automation and remote monitoring of some assets with educational license. But the message will spread and the user base will grow over a period of time. This eco-system will create a strong momentum among big consultants and SI's towards Ignition for serious business.

An USD 99/- license may look cheap per se, but think about a million licenses. This must be very appealing for shareholders.

7

Inductive Automation is privately held. Consider talking to your Integrator program contact or sales agent.

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[raises hand] Ooh! me! I know!

  1. Microsoft gets its money from two things. One is the other twenty percent that buy legal licenses. The other is in subscriptions (enterprise support, being one of them). And the Microsoft Store.

  2. GSuite Enterprise is NOT free. Plus, click-bait and advertisements, aka AdChoices

  3. Enterprise support contracts.

  4. Enterprise support contracts. MySQL is owned by Oracle. Oracle is NOT free and is used in-- you guessed it-- enterprise systems.

Many enterprise customers are comfortable spending money if it means they get more robust system in the end.[quote="R.Alamsha, post:1, topic:17178"]
They can tell the employers, "an Ignition certified candidate can work on any SCADA. He can work on Linux, Python and Java too. You get 3 for the price of 1".
[/quote]

Certifications are already free via Inductive University, unless they wish to join the integrator program. Even then, it doesn't qualify anyone to work with any SCADA. Anyone who has worked with Factory Talk, Wonderware, or Indusoft would say the same. And since none of them use Linux, Python, or Java, this argument falls flat.

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9

another scada software manufacturer has adopted a free license model with paid design/support, or even paid cloud hosting. I am not sure if that is a sign of them trying to get the product out there more or a sign that they are about to go under. I dont think it is outlandish. scada softwares are getting cheaper and cheaper and the products better and better. a professional services model may work. Out of respect for Inductive I wont say the name of the company that is doing this but I am definitely interested in how it plays out for them. I am sure it was a huge gamble on their part.

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Well said. Wealth and power is always concentrated in the hands of top 20%, anywhere in the world. They are the decision makers. Use the 80% as your sales force to make the 20% pay for your product and services.

The most powerful magic wand to mobilize 80% on your side is, "low margin, high volume... live and let live". Of course, you have to have a great product which can empower them to win their bread. Ignition fits the bill neatly, as of today.

Python and Java always tops the list of top 5 coding skills in demand. I have always found, programmers with Java, Python background have picked up Factory link, WW Archestra and PLC programming, far better than those experienced PLC/SCADA guys after a couple of months. When it comes to configuring and hosting a Jasper reports server on Linux and playing with database, these programmers have become the bread winners for the company. The client always has some job for them through out the year. Some times he use to get annoyed "Why you didn't call me?. I was waiting for you... I have some good job for you".

A SCADA/PLC programmer with Ignition, Java, Python, database skills is a big asset for an SI.

11

Business and politics are merciless and unforgiving. Loyalty is a joke. There are no permanent friends or enemies in business and politics. What matters is mutual interest.

Complacency can kill. Nokia was once holding 80% of the mobile phone market. When Samsung Android hit the shelves, Nokia disappeared overnight.

No doubt, Ignition has set a new benchmark. Now uncle Scar is watching Simba :slight_smile: What will happen, if some xyz company offers something better than Ignition for half of the price?. Everyone will disappear, including i.

12

Completely missed the point here. Let me say it again: 20% that buy legal licenses. Don't misunderstand what I didn't say. Just because you can get Windows for free doesn't make it right to do so. Live and let live in this instance is moral relativism and an illegal one, at that.

That's really not comparing the same thing. Most "experienced PLC/SCADA guys" are on the shop floor and in the trenches, never having to deal with scripting of any sort. Again, this argument fails. While the skill sets may be useful for an SI, not all of us are SIs. We are the end users that fix all the things SIs miss or break. :wink:

@diat150, I know the package you're talking about. The SCADA package is just a historian with an html5 interface. no real control or binding. Anything more comes at a price. Their stock prices hit $5.00 in 2014, but is now sitting at $0.70. Sounds of desperation to me.

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further, don’t conflate commercial and private products.

Microsoft isn’t (often) hunting down individuals pirating software to try and sue them, the individuals avoiding paying for microsoft word probably aren’t going to have the hundreds of thousands of dollars in their bank to justify Microsoft hunting them.

However, a large oil and gas company using pirated software? Microsoft would love to catch them and sue them for everything they can get. The risks for individuals are low, the risks for enterprises are pretty high.

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14

I for one like to use the forum to find answers to technical questions.
Let’s get back to doing our jobs and let Inductive Automation run their business on their own wit and wisdom.

We all vote with our checkbooks. There is another thread on the forum where someone tried to market their competing product with Ignition and failed. Let’s not spend any more time or effort debating how Inductive Automation should price their product or run their business.

Ignition is the best product on the market and the best value for the price. My money goes to IA.
(not from this account where I enthusiastically learn and play with the trial version at home but from my business account where I average buying a license every month)

And now for my questions about Named Queries; and EAM; and nested UDTs; and SPC; and …

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15

http://www.tango-controls.org/
A free multiplatform, open source SCADA framework for Python, Java and C++

16

I am NOT trying to teach business to IA. I love Ignition and hence i am adding great value to Ignition by proposing an idea which can convert the 2hr free trial license users into USD99/- subscribed EL license clients. If we relax and look deeper, Ignition webclient will display clearly in the yellow bar down "Education License (for non-commercial use only). Terms and conditions apply" with a run down counter displaying the number of days left for the license.

Any sensible client will NOT automate his plant and risk his operations under EL to save few thousand dollars. At the max, the user will run a pilot project for his client to decide, which takes 90 to 180 days normally. Once the project is approved, he will automatically get back to IA and negotiate for a commercial license, because neither he can risk his hard earned business nor the client would accept the yellow bar EL license warning. If required, Ignition can legally embed an activity tracker to monitor any violations. In the worst case, after sufficient warnings, Ignition can deactivate or refuse to renew subscription request for the EL license and default it to 2 hr trial license until the user comes to the negotiating table.

Only the enthusiasts and job seekers who run mostly non-critical sites like home automation and skill showcase will NOT bother much about buying a commercial license because they can't afford. But, we shall keep in mind that they are paying USD 99/- every 24 months, spreading Ignition, acting as a sales force and brand ambassadors for Ignition.

In fact, to make Ignition ubiquitous and affordable for SMB clients, IA can come up with an annual subscription plan starting from USD 250/- base package + 5 webclients. Mark my words. Once the user base crosses a threshold point, Google and MIcrosoft will knock the doors of IA and compete to offer USD 10 billion onwards to buy IA.

If i were an Ignition stakeholder, i will definitely stand up and clap for this idea.

17

One million licenses in one year:

I have prepared a “Road Show” master plan to hit “one million licenses in one year” sales target. The Road Show has been designed for 7 cities worldwide: New York, Bombay, Shanghai, London, Dubai, Paris and Johannesburg.

Let IA evaluate my proposition with big marketing consultants. If they like it and would like to hear more from me, they are most welcome to contact me.

The inspiration for my proposition is, ICC 2017 Keynote video. I have watched it more than 10 times and i shall admit that i haven’t seen this kind of show from a software company till date. The reason for posting this idea in an open forum is intentional. I want the ignition community and marketing pundits to debate the pros and cons of this idea openly. Good luck.

18

6 Ways to Sell Ignition Instantly:

Winning New Business with Ignition:
https://inductiveautomation.com/resources/video/winning-new-business-with-ignition

Selling for Ignition is NOT my unsolicited advice. IA is asking us to do it officially. I am trying to fulfil the dream and vision of Ignition in my own little way. I am just practising what IA is preaching.

Of course, IA built Ignition NOT for charity. They built it with a dream to make millions and billions.

(I truly admire your noble thoughts. It helped me a lot to fine tune my idea. Thank you so much. Cheers :slight_smile:)

19

What is included for the magical number of $99?
Is that for Ignition Foundation, Ignition Pro or Ignition Ultimate?
What if they need WebDev, Web Browser and EAM that I need and buy but are not included in Ignition Ultimate? DNP3, OPC COM DA and Serial are not included in Ultimate either but might be needed for that Masters project. What about add-ons by Cirrus Link (MQTT is a perfect place for Masters & PhD projects) or SepaSoft (SPC is another great place for educational projects)?

If the two hour trial isn't enough, I still prefer a percentage based subscription model that would let people pay a percentage of the modules they need for a subscription with an expiration. Need WebDev but not Vision or need SQL Bridge and Vision but not Reporting? Pay a percentage for what you use. A flat $99 for some undefined set of modules leaves too many questions.

Total Care Support is 24% annually - maybe buy total care support for a license that expires when total care ends.

At any rate, I'm sure the Marketing folks are watching this thread with great intensity but I'm tired of it and exit with this:

"We'll stay the course, continue our orderly progress. We'll keep improving Ignition." "Most importantly, we'll stay focused on what we do best, we won't stray out of our wheelhouse."
-- Steve Hechtman, ICC-2017 Keynote

Thank you Inductive Automation for giving us the best product at the best price.
That is the formula to sell anything.

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Everything except third party modules. I suggest, third party module vendors must discuss with IA and cut a deal to get a percentage from USD 99/-, if they include their products by default. My target is "one million licenses in one year", which is possible with the magic number USD 99/. Even if a third party vendor gets 1 dollar per license, he can make a million dollar per year.

We must keep in mind, software is perishable. Unsold software perishes faster than pizza, melts sooner than ice and stinks worse than rotten eggs. Today, MIcrosoft doesn't make a single penny from WIndws10. Ubuntu has kicked MS very hard indeed. Bill Gates has become the biggest investor on Linux, not to mention the recent acquisition of Linkedin for USD 26 billion.

The fundamental law of software business is "Build once, sell million times... again and again , if possible".

One of my long term friends working for a top 5 SCADA vendor since 25 years, read this topic and commented: "your proposition has become the hottest topic in our board room".