Questions that I have that relate to your questions are: will the Vision module be continued indefinitely, or is there an end of life for this? and if so, how long do we have until that day?
Of course older versions have to be phased out as newer ones arrive !
It was just an impression in my mind that i got from the picture that kevin had shown on architecture of perspective in his presentation on perspective (recording) where both perspective and vision were shown side by side as any other modules of ignition. I thought both versions are available in the beta version of 8 for ease of comparison during the trial period to avoid switching between separate installations of version <8 and 8. That was not the case as its not pragmatic.
Well in answer to your question, yes, both Vision and Perspective modules are available and will be available in v8.0. However my understanding is that Vision will be maintained for some years to come, I’m just not sure about its end date and if it’s known yet.
Indeed vision is an amazing module. It has every thing that you can think of as an hmi package. It’s time tested over last10 years. It will take few years for perspective to reach that level of maturity and robustness. However migration to new technologies is inevitable so as to remain compatible with modern gadgets and to leverage the latest trends in technology like distributed computing , cloud etc
Vision is not going away, and it does coexist with Perspective.
Perspective is a new visualization alternative, with a large focus on mobile-first design principles. In 8.1, there will be “native” desktop applications to launch Perspective projects, as well, but Vision is not going anywhere.
This page is continually being updated by the folks in the training department:
Perspective is a completely separate, web-first visualization system. It has none of the technical limitations that came from the Mobile module’s requirement to “bridge” Java/Swing (desktop-only) with the web browser. As such, the list of “component events” is extensive:
The Vision module is not going anywhere, and will not be removed or demoted in any way by Perspective. In fact, Vision is receiving some big upgrades in 8.0 - including brand new native client launchers for a completely reworked native application experience.
This is completely untrue. Backwards compatibility has always been a huge part of Ignition, and the Vision module is no exception. This really can’t be said enough, and I’d appreciate you not throwing out false/unfounded information: Vision is not going anywhere, and Perspective and Vision can absolutely co-exist with each other.
Thanks for the clarifications Paul.
In the long run though, would IA encourage users to adopt Perspective over Vision? From an integrator customer’s perspective (pardon the pun ), it’s not feasible for projects to be build in two different client environments, and with Perspective’s seamless integration now with mobile clients, i imagine especially for new projects that it’d be counter productive to start these using the Vision module. But I definitely understand from an existing project’s perspective that these can take years to make the switch across, if ever!
It’s really going to depend on your project. Do you see a need to make a mobile-first experience? Then by all means do it in Perspective!
If you don’t need that mobile-first capability, definitely do it in Vision. Vision isn’t going anywhere and it currently (and probably for a while yet) has more capabilities.
My colleagues have already (hopefully) expressed enough that Perspective is not Vision 2.0, and the two are going to coexist for the foreseeable future. There isn’t going to be a clear answer on “which should I use”, since every project is so different.
I personally would choose Perspective if it met the component needs I have at the time I start my project. Vision has a larger suite of components available right now, and likely will upon release of 8.0. So if your project has an immediate need for something that Perspective can’t satisfy right now, then lean toward Vision.
Otherwise, I would personally choose Perspective. In the long run (years+) it’s going to be more capable as well as more flexible. The web is a much bigger world than Java Swing and there is so much more investment in web technologies that it just seems the more future proof. Vision will continue getting updates and improvements, but the roadmap is much larger for Perspective simply due to what the technologies are capable of.
If I did choose Vision, I would try to build my project in a way that the tags and various data models I needed would be suitable for both, so in the future migrating to Perspective could be done with a smaller effort. This mostly means keeping UDTs well structured, avoiding as many client tags/scripts as I can (there is no client tags/scripts in perspective), and things of that nature.
Ultimately the project will be the determining factor, but all things being equal I’d choose Perspective for the long run.
How are people going to work around no client tags in perspective? Is that something that will be in the works? Seems like client tags are widely used in most large applications. Is it possible to have custom properties on windows? I guess that may be a work around to the lack of the client tags?
Perspective has a different mechanism for the same idea. Rather than model per-session information as “tags”, instead each session has its own props, which can be organized, bound, etc just like a component’s props.
My apologies if it sent a wrong message or information. When I downloaded V8 beta and ran the designer launcher for the first time, I saw a completely new look and feel for the designer, with a new look of icons and UI etc… So I thought that perspective is the new designer module which under the hood produces output in react format instead of swing components some how!
I am extremely sorry if it sent a wrong message or information. I think this confusion was due to absence of a brief tutorial on accessing the perspective module, especially for those who are seeing it for the first time! We know that its beta and we can’t expect the tutorials or documentation, and fault lies with me for wrong interpretation.
Indeed vision is a great module and it has to stay forever in Ignition. Perspective coexists with it for more mobile friendly interface.
I can see how the new look and feel might make it slightly more confusing, but if you uninstall the Perspective module, you’ll see what is simply an updated Designer. Some UI’s have been updated, and of course the ‘look and feel’ has seen the first real update, so it appears more modern as well. Fundamentally though, it’s still the same environment.
When Perspective is installed, it becomes the default workspace, but vision is still there and functions exactly as it always has – it just looks better by default due to the new LaF.
So the new designer, in addition to new LaF, includes perspective module as I understand? The perspective module can be accessed from the project tree on right clicking it as a new component type, is that right? It took me some time time figure it out.
It would be nice if a brief IU introductory course is added for the perspective for absolutely new users of Perspective like me and your early bird buyers of perspective!
I’d really like to take a look to ignition 8 beta, is it possible for someone send the download link of beta version for me?
Not quite. The Designer, with new LaF, is part of the platform. Perspective is a module, which the platform level features (and other modules) can interact with.
If you installed Ignition 8 without the Perspective module, the Designer would still retain the new LaF. What Perry said about a default workspace simply means that the Designer will open to the Perspective workspace when launched (similar to how a Designer from a 7.9 gateway opens to the Vision workspace), but only if the module is installed.
I agree, it would be nice. The problem is that any videos we make during the beta will ultimately have to be scrapped or re-recorded when the stable release is made available: the software is constantly changing at this point, so any documentation generated will quickly become invalidated. Case in point, we have some videos in our new demo project that were made for our conference not too long ago, and they already need to be updated.
That being said, we could certainly plan for an enhanced introduction to the beta program in the future. Side note, you will see a normal run of Perspective videos once the stable build is available.
Indeed I didn’t install Perspective after installing Ignition 8! I thought its bundled in it, being the single most important change in Ignition 8 and also looking at the size of installer ~700mb compared to some ~300+ mb for version 7! . Where can I see the download of Perspective module? (where the other Ignition modules are there?).
I knew that it must be the case, as its at our own (users) request that you have made the beta available early knowing pretty well that still its half baked. I did see the demo project and some videos and glimpses of perspective by colby and that gave an idea that I am missing some module.
Mostly all these misconceptions come because I had not seen the perspective either in ICC 2018 or any other videos. All good now, and look forward to stable builds.
It is bundled. Do a fresh install. If you do an upgrade of v7.9, and select to upgrade just existing modules, Perspective would be left out.
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